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panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently, Redleg, you underestimated the determination of the New Canadians to remain ignorant of what it takes to field an effective army. Canada is stubbornly obtuse and incapable of objective self-evaluation. At this rate, Canada will team n a pox on the international community, careening around various parts of the world, shooting up the place like a passel of American cowboys fresh off the trail and looking for trouble. The Army simply refused to learn anything and, while your efforts are commendable, Canada will not learn anything at all until it admits its faults to itself. You just can't fix wilful stupid. In fact, you probably SHOULDN'T. The LAST thing the world needs are more EFFECTIVE stupid Canadians. At the current rate, the Canadians themselves will rid us of the problem. Please don't interfere.
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MechCommander
E5


Joined: 20 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Brigadier General, Scott McCoy): "Wait? the Gas Chamber is using Tear Gas for training? Normally when we think of a Gas Chamber is normally used as a tool of execution by deadly gas."

(General Thornton): "I guess we where misunderstood, very well we will adopt these ideas into the infantry training program as it seems to have some merit."

(Admiral Kirk): "The Royal Canadian Navy will do the same with our sailors, as for the Press Gang system its only used when we are in desperate need for sailors to fill in, its not used regularly."

(General Thornton): "Let go on with this meeting."
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7.62
E5


Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 1067
Location: Canada.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mech.
If you have ever been to the Hat, you passed by some of the best equipped chambers in the World.
Just do not go digging around on the prairie to the North of them!
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redleg
E5


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Riverside, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a good night’s sleep, the ROD and Canadian teams are ready for another day of discussions. We are glad that the Canadians are at least considering the topics covered. It’s up to Canada to implement any changes, but it’s quite clear that changes are necessary, and the status quo will only lead to disaster.

Daisy is back with us this morning, but Emmie has disappeared. Joining us is a young boxer named Randy. Randy is young and has a lot of energy…too much energy for Daisy’s liking. She snaps at Randy to let him know that this is serious business, it’s not a playground. Randy moves to the other end of the room for some head scratching.


Day 2 Morning Session: Strategic Objectives

Strategic and theater-level objectives are critical. This is not tactical decision making, this is decided whether or not to invade another country or whether to initiate a military campaign. Activity in Mauritania and Venezuela are recent examples. LOGISTICS are enormously important at this level. Here are some points for discussion:

• Always have a mission. What do you want to accomplish? Never initiate a military campaign without deciding what you want to do and how you will know when you are done. What is the desired end-state?
• What does Canada stand for? Does military intervention fit with your values and national identity?
• What are Canadians willing to kill for? What are you willing to die for? Undertaking a military campaign will undoubtedly include both killing and dying. Is it worth what you are trying to accomplish?
• Alliances and partnerships are important. Sometimes you can operate by yourself, but sometimes you need help. Sometimes the help you need is not with the fighting…it can be in the area of communications, logistics, or even public opinion. The enemy of your enemy can be your ally, even if you don’t like them.
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MechCommander
E5


Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 1180

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(General Thornton): "New Canada has always respond to threats all across the world from rebellions in forgien country's to Terror attacks, etc we would not have considered backing down in a military engagement, our mission in those two countries was to remove the Terror groups there, to which our intel thought they where uneducated in practicing Conventional Warfare, the solution was to deploy forces on mass to overwhelm the enemy and remove the terror group from the country, logistics can be a big task to support a large force but, it was worth it. As for Alliances and partnerships we only side with country's are Canada's most trusted allies in our Coalition."
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redleg
E5


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Riverside, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a decent lunch at the DFAC and a short walk with Daisy and Randy, we start on the next session.

Day 2 Afternoon Session: Expeditionary Warfare

Canada does not have any significant threats on its land borders. That means that, for the army at least, it will have to travel to fight. The navy and air force fight at sea and in the air, but if the battlefield is a significant distance from home, they will have to set up bases to operate from as well. This is called expeditionary warfare – the deployment of troops to fight abroad.

Expeditionary warfare is all about LOGISTICS. It’s about getting the right resources to the right place at the right time. Those assets include combat forces, support units, supplies, and the transporting units themselves. And all of these troops that you are moving across the globe have to arrive in a condition to fight.

Also remember that you can deploy troops without fighting. Power Projection can be used to threaten someone, or to demonstrate military might as a deterrent. Here are some points for us to discuss:

• What is the best way to project power? Navy ships off the coast? Troops on the ground? If you just want to demonstrate commitment to a cause you don’t necessarily need to deploy legions of troops.
• Strategic mobility and tactical mobility are not the same thing. Tactical mobility is moving about the battlefield, or even around the theater of operations. Strategic mobility is moving troops, equipment, and supplies from one theater to another. Many tactical transports (like helicopters) are not capable of strategic movement. Transport aircraft are great for moving people and some supplies and small vehicles, but their capacity is extremely limited compared to ships.
• Think very carefully about what you need to deploy. Do you really need 100,000 troops in an operation? Remember that you have to sustain whatever you deploy, and that sustainment takes up valuable resources just like the troops and vehicles do.
• You MUST plan ahead for sustainment. It takes a while to ships to move around the globe. You need to anticipate needs and be proactive in sending personnel, equipment, or supplies.

Remember that construction takes time as well. If you don’t have allies that are willing to let you use their airfields and facilities, you may have to build them yourself. Building things takes time and resources.

Bottom line for expeditionary warfare is this: you have to transport everything. Planning is key – what you’re deploying, how you’re getting it there, how long it will take, and in what order you are moving it.
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MechCommander
E5


Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 1180

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Admiral Kirk): "Well there is one minor threat near New Canada that where cracking down on, mainly the smuggling and transportation of the drug Cannabis from the island nation of Karmanaskis, as you know Cannabis has been made illegal by the New Canadian Government last year, under the Cannabis Prohibition Act, the Royal Canadian Navy is working in conjunction with the New Canadian Coast Guard to stop the Trafficking of this insidious plant, same goes for the RCMP at the 49th parallel border."

(General Thornton): "When It comes to Logistics its based on what we where dealing with such as Mauritania's capital, it would take thousands of troops just to storm into the city to combat the Militants, as under the strict guidelines of the New Canadian Army's Battlefield doctrine, where basicly the sledgehammer on the ground. however logistics is carried out the Quartermaster and the Main Command Staff who governs the operation."

(Major Tim Connor): "Yes like what the Army General said, its up to the top officers to make logistical choices, and we did demonstrate our ability to quickly build bases of our own in Mauritania with the engineers and a large army of Civilian Construction workers we brought in."
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chrisswim
E5


Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 2876
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang, its their fault, they should have gotten this right. We did our part, then we're finished thank you very much...!

Use this example....

1965: Suharto's Indonesia was being very aggressive towards Malaysia / the RAF.

Tupolev Tu-16 (Badger) from a base in Sumatra started runs down Malaysia towards Singapore.

The ADS was very effective, but the MOD decided to play a trump card.

Apologies, the dates are lost in the sands of time, but in 1965 three Vulcans took off from RAF Butterworth.

They were in flight refuelled by Victors on detachment to RAF Tangah.

The first Vulvan entered the Java FIR and was challenged.

My recollections were as follows:

'This is Jakarta control. Please identify yourself.'

'This is Britannic, a four jet, FL 600 en route to Darwin'.

Jakarta control, 'Britannic means RAF?'

'Yes'.

'Aircraft type?'

'Avro Vulcan.'

Total rt silence.

Thirty minutes late another high flyer appeared on the Jakarta FIR radar.

Repeat conversation.

Thirty minutes later the third Vulcan passed over Jakarta without any rt contact.

All Tupolev Tu-16 (Badger) incursions ceased.

It's called 'Projecting strategic presence.'

Post script: Victor decided to do a victory fly past at Tangah, but forgot he had a 1k litre tank in the bomb bay.

Alas, he pulled too much G and presented a spectacular pyrotechnic along the main runway :-O
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MechCommander
E5


Joined: 20 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(General Thornton): "The New Canadian Military does not preform any kind of force projection, as its would have been a wasted use of military might, the actual invasion and attack is sufficient to make the enemy think twice."
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redleg
E5


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Riverside, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Sorry, but we cannot help but laugh. Force projection is used to deter violence. If you are a real soldier you will do whatever you can to avoid bloodshed.

As for logistics, it is everyone's responsibility. Or do you rely on the division quartermaster to arrange for each rifle company's food and water and ammunition? Doctrinally, logistics responsibilities are dictated down to the company level, but we would argue that it goes down to the platoon and squad level. Would a squad leader wait for some senior officer to tell him when to pick up batteries for the night vision devices in his squad? he better not! he better know what his squad's logistical needs are and be proactive.

“Gentlemen, the officer who doesn’t know his communications and supply as well as his tactics is totally useless.”
-GEN George S. Patton Jr.
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MechCommander
E5


Joined: 20 Mar 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(General Thornton): "I have no further comment on the subject of Force Projection thank you.

As for logistics its always important to have a quartermaster from the Logistics Department assigned as he deals with the paperwork necessary to keep the operation running smoothly. The handling of supplies is done on a regimental level carried out by the Commanding officer in charge of that unit, before any combat could began the officer inspects the supply's he has and the solders equipment, if he finds anything he is short off he writes it down on the departments request form and delivers it to the quartermaster to order in the supplies he needs so the unit is combat ready."

(Major Tim Connor): "So what your saying is we should allow the enlisted solders to steal what they can from our Departments storage buildings?"
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panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Canadians rely on manna from heaven and the hope that God watches out for drunks and fools. They refuse to be dragged into competence. "Just beam it down to us, Scotty!"
Just when you think they might finally get it, something comes up to disabuse you of that impression. I believe the motto on the New Canada seal is "Arrogance, Ignorance, Hubris."

The U.I.N. while uncharacteristically silent on the matter, should consider blockading them in their home waters to protect them from themselves.
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All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
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redleg
E5


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Riverside, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="MechCommander"]The Canadian Government is asking the ROD to send someone to our country to help retrain our Armed Forces, so we would not lose so much lives.[/quote]

Canada asked the ROD to assist them with retraining their armed forces. We have completed 2 full days of talks, but so far the Canadian delegation hasn't said or done anything to indicate that they are willing to change anything. Nevertheless, we have promised 5 days of discussions so we will deliver 5 days even though we wonder if it would have been better to just e-mail some PowerPoint slides to Canada.

Day 3 Morning Session: Modern Military Operations

Modern military operations are complex. They often take place in the most inhospitable environments with political and economic considerations stacked on top of tactical ones. Civilians are almost always on the battlefield. Technology has made the military more lethal, but it has also added to the complexity and sustainment challenges that armies face.

We’re not going into specific tactics or procedures, but we’d like to discuss concepts and ideas for conducting modern military operations. Here are some ideas to discuss this morning:

• Always have a mission. What is your objective? What is the desired end-state? Always have a plan.
• Don’t reinvent the wheel. Study history and watch what others are doing or have done. I can almost guarantee that another military force has faced the same thing. Learn from them.
• Understand the tooth to tail ratio. Picture a vicious dog. His teeth are his weapons (infantry, tanks, artillery, attack aviation). His tail is for support (supply, maintenance, transportation, communications, intelligence). As your force grows larger, the tooth to tail ratio increases as well. At the division level you will have more support troops than trigger-pullers. If you don’t then you are missing something.
• Combined arms operations are the name of the game. Tailor your forces to fit each mission, attach and detach elements as needed. Use liaison officers liberally. It’s OK to have a big staff. Just make sure they all have something to contribute. Battlefield Operating Systems include maneuver, fire support, engineers, air defense, logistics, personnel, chemical, military police, medical, etc.
• Don’t go for one-size-fits-all planning. Planning for counter-insurgency won’t cut it for high intensity conflict. Peace keeping and peace enforcement are different.
• LOGISTICS are incredibly important. All this high-tech gear increases logistical loads.
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panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amateurs discuss tactics. Professionals study logistics. Read Rick Atkinsons's "The Guns at Last Light."
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All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
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MechCommander
E5


Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 1180

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(General Thornton): "When it comes to a mission when we face an enemy we know next to nothing about, how do we even know what to bring and what to expect to face? In our fight against the militants we where using our conventional warfare tactics which does include Combined arms warfare, but the enemy uses tactics that is completely unknown and does not comply with the current standards of warfare."

(Major Tim Connor): "When I took a look at this Tooth to Tail ratio, I image it more of a pipeline, where troops and supplies flow easily by ship or transport aircraft from Canada and the current battlefield."
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