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Question to Mr. Donald M. Scheef

 
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 146
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:49 am    Post subject: Question to Mr. Donald M. Scheef Reply with quote

I have been on this forum for a number of years now but have never sought your advice before, too busy fighting everyone on the forum as was my wont.
As i'm in my transitional period so to speak becoming friendly Fireball i was wondering if i could borrow your expertise to settle some of my questions regarding modern naval war gaming?
If your are willing to help me say aye , it won;t take much of your time i have a few questions before i embark on my modern wargaming adventure

FB
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 146
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So let me pose my questions, i would still like Mr. Sheef to respond as he looks be the resident naval expert judging by the sheer volume of work that he has done on this forum but anyone is welcome to put his opinions forward.. god knows this forum needs some major project.
So this is the problem:
I have been eyeballing the modern naval range from GHQ but how to make a wargame out of it? The biggest problem are the ranges especially the over the horizon SSMís, the table is not big enough.
I have some thoughts and questions on that so for now let me propose 3 questions that are stopping me from buying my modern fleets.
1) What fleets?
Now originally i thought to get soviets and USA but the problem is that if you look at any era be it the 60ís , 80í or the present the us navy has an unfair advantage in carriers... not much of a game here.
So I think I will settle on British and Soviets, looking at the GHQ range both look balanced you have invincible against Kievs , Kirovs are maybe too powerful but this is the closest i got to two balanced nations.
So Soviets against Brits any thoughts?

2) Gaming area and thoughts on early mechanics.
So if we have the British\Soviet conflict i propose a 8x4 plywood depicting to the best of my abilities the north sea.
Now i will divide the sea area into sectors and each sector will have a set of numbers running down its side depending on the size of the sector.
So for example a sector may have numbers from 1 to 20 and in it we have Kiev hybrid carrier with Slava escort lets just say that the Kievís speed rating is 5 and slavas 6 so to move through the sector into another one and still remain as a group it will take 4 turns and on the fifth turn they move into another sector were they already covered a distance of 5.
What do you think?
This way the ships are moving more slowly on the board and longer ranges for SSMís are possible.
3) This is the question i would like Mr. Sheef respond to but anyone is welcome.
SSM, SAM firing rate is a complete puzzle to me. Let me explain:
Example the soviet Kirov has 20xSS-NX-19 SSMís, now i assume it canít launch 20 in one go so how many cam be in the air at once? Does it depend on the radars controlling those weapons and if so how to work this out for each ship?
And what about SAMís are they fire and forget?
See what i mean? Lots of questions.
Anyway that is more then enough for now.

Fireball

P.S this sector numbering will also govern the missile ranges so if lets say the SS-19 has a range of 50 it will be able to fly over 2 20 point sectors and attack the next one.
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Donald M. Scheef
E5


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1449
Location: Waukegan, Illinois USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your flattering opinion of my knowledge, but I'm afraid that I'm the wrong person to ask about modern naval wargaming. All my actual shipboard experience was in the engineering spaces of a SSBN. As a hobby, I concentrate on the first half of the 20th century. Sorry, I haven't any ideas on how to manage OTH missile guidance and multiple-launch capabilities.

Don S.
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chrisswim
E5


Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1759
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Modern Naval Ideas Reply with quote

Fireball,
What rule set are you using or planning to use? The rules you use should provide that info, based upon the ship, its capabilities and the time frame being used to reflect 'real time' and play -ability. The rules of Harpoon had two movement dimensions, as I recall, a 10 minute turn and 30 second turn.
A rule producer, Clash at Arms produced modern naval rules as I recall. Heard good comments about that.
As for table warfare, probably not use US carriers unless you set up a special scenario. Cruisers and small seem to have worked well. Although there was a scenario from Harpoon Yearbook/Quarterly that was interesting within the Black Sea the Tibilisi was in Ukraine port but crewed with Russian loyalist was trying to escape through Turkey. Bosphorus Straight.
As for navies, is using current, Japan, China, US, Russia, UK can all get in the mix with East China Sea and South China Sea and the Chinese 'islands'. Older US ships for the Philippines. Move into the Indian Ocean with India, UK, US, as an idea.
May want to try 14-16 feet length of table by 4-6 feet wide ocean area.
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 146
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Don
Same here i only gamed ww1 and ww2 so far but i'm intrigued with the moderns.
Chris harpoon looks very complex and some of the other rules treat a weapon system as one value but what do you think about my sectors idea? that way i can have different speeds assigned to ships and it will still work as the slowest ship will dictate the movement of the task force.
The table your are talking about would surly cost me my marriage hehehehehehehe


FB
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Guroburov
E5


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
Posts: 133
Location: Coppel, TX

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Fireball,

As Chris put it nicely, it all depends on the rules set you use. I've been following a lot of the modern naval groups (lurking and learning). Their biggest complaints/concerns are over the speed and range of missile systems making ship maneuvers virtually pointless. The missiles move so fast that most ships at that scale would move about 1/4" by the time the missiles hit. I still plan to buy modern naval miniatures some day but just for the fun/joy of owning them. For modern gaming I'll probably stick to the Fleet series board games. I found there that, yes, an American carrier group is a very ugly thing, even from 1980. That said, you can still take it out if you're willing to throw enough at it. I managed to pull it off exactly once.

On the other hand you could have really exciting non missile games with lighter ships. Chris really hit it squarely if you look at smaller actions between China, Korea, Japan, and India. Put a Russian or American destroyer or two in that and go nuts.

Steve

cool, and that was my 100th post Very Happy
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 146
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats Mr. Guroburov now you're E-5 as well.... we have to find out what that means.

I completely forgot about the Fleet game series as i remember i had the 2nd fleet once.. ahh good times.

I still think that the idea of area movement might work for the moderns.
just imagine a table glossy blue for seas with an odd land outline and an island or two with white borders for the sectors and fantastic GHQ miniatures on it.
I'm almost tempted to go to the hardware store now.
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