Join GHQ's free e-mail list. Just enter your e-mail address and click on the Subscribe button. You can cancel your subscription at any time.

GHQ Models Forums
The Best Damn Wargaming Forum
 
  FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    MemberlistMemberlist    UsergroupsUsergroups    RegisterRegister 
  ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in 
ACR thread, as suggested by Redleg
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    GHQ Models Forums Forum Index -> Military Models General Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: ACR thread, as suggested by Redleg Reply with quote

Redleg, here is the ACR thread, for discussion of cavalry and ACR units.

My current cavalry establishment consists of a divisional cavalry squadron circa 1973 equipped with M114s and M551s, a USAREUR ACR squadron equipped with M113s and M551s, and divisional squadron with M3s. I have M551s sufficient to build a Stateside ACR, but that's for budgets down the road. I had planned only a squadron when I requested the old-style GHQ model without the gun tub, but got an overwhelming response and ended up with a lot more.


I plan to model the evolution of cavalry units from post-WWII up through the J-series, but there are A LOT of variation, so it will take time. Some will only be troops, others squadrons. Just for starters, there are the Vietnam variations, the early '60s, the 1970s separate armored brigade troop, the interim J-series with M60A3s and M113s. I was surprised to learn from an old friend that, even after armored units in Germany had received M60s, his divisional squadron still had jeeps in the platoon scout sections and the tank section had two M48A2s.


Lots of interesting stuff ahead.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redleg
E5


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Riverside, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís a lot of cavalry, PG! I like the way you think! I was just going to build one armored cavalry unit.

I have quite a few vehicles around that are ďunattachedĒ at the moment. Not that every miniature needs to belong to a particular unit, but it makes me feel better to know that they have a home! I have enough to build an ACR squadron, and then I thought maybe I should just go for the whole regiment over time. So as I start to piece the unit together I am giving it the working title of 9th ACR. There was never a 9th ACR in the US Army that I am aware of, but the only time I was ever in a cavalry unit was as a platoon leader in a brigade reconnaissance troop, and we were B troop / 9th Cavalry. There arenít going to be any unit markings so it doesnít really matter what I call it. If I ever get another modern wargame going it will provide enough vehicles for any ACR or a full brigade combat team.

I was going to do it all in desert tan and I felt pretty good about how the vehicles were coming along, but the more I look at them the less I like them (someday my daughter will have a boyfriend and he will know exactly what I mean). So now I am in a dilemma: should I be a quitter, skip the tan, and go for 3-color NATO camouflage for Europe? Or should I give the tan another go? Either way, the first batch of Bradleys that I painted tan are soaking right now to be stripped and repainted.
_________________
"Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl".
-Unknown Artilleryman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are interested in a board game, an old school buddy of mine who served in 11AC R is making a game of the Fulda Gap covering force mission. He served in 2/11 in late '70s and has been involved in warfare simulation, knows what he's talking about.

As you know, ALL cavalry units were once regimental. It was the mess created by WWII that broke them up into tank battalions, separate reconnaissance battalions, cavalry groups, etc. 9th and 10th Cavalry were the black regiments before desegregation. There is NOTHING that says you can't reconstitute the 9th as an ACR. My Stateside ACR will likely be the 13th. My grandfather served in 13th, as well as 2nd.

While my 3 AD battalions are designated according to the traditional OB, I will have a couple additional battalions with arbitrary designations of my choosing. Eventually, I will have a 3-70AR and a 4-37AR. 3-70AR will be the MERDC tropical scheme. I haven't decided on my J series ABCT units or the J series divcav designations yet. But it's part of the fun. Although I can't think of the name, I have the two volume Armor/Cavalry history and heraldry books for reference.

Personally, I would like to see 6 ACRs in active service. And all with M1s and M3s. None of those useless Strykers.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for camo, well, I'm an opinionated SOB, and desert camo has been de-rigueur since '91, but It is BORING. Of course, I trained for and served in Europe, so I'm prejudiced, although my dad raised me to understand I should be prepared to serve anywhere. I like the European camo schemes, even the USAREUR one. NOT boring. Although I served in both Germany and Stateside units, the only place I ever felt I was in the REAL Army was Germany. So I AM prejudiced in favor of OD, USAREUR, MERDC, & NATO. No desert sand for me.

Ok, I think my USAREUR TOE squadron will be 1/13th ACR. Its Sheridans have the gun tubs. I will eventually complete that regiment. The Stateside ACR will be 14th ACR. 14th will have M113s rather than M114s, so it will be after 1974 era.

I will have a spare reinforced mech battalion attach on order to reinforce the ACR, as well. There is never enough Infantry, and my ACRs will need some, because they will be backing up Marine fire brigades.

How batteries for these units are the 6-piece units, not 8-piece.

My current J series cav unit is reinforced by an M1 (105mm) company and an additional troop. It's a long way off, but there is a J series ACR in my future, as well.

I have gone on top long, but I wanted to make sure I added as many words as possible to the forum.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
redleg
E5


Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 442
Location: Riverside, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate your words, Pazergator! More words!

I think youíre right about the camouflage. Most of the time I was in NATO camo units, even when I deployed to the desert! The only unit that I served in with desert tan vehicles was at Fort Carson Ė up in the mountains!

The most fun I had was in Germany, so Iíll go with the NATO camo for my regiment. 6-gun batteries for me as well. Artillery in an ACR is very interesting Ė very responsive because itís owned by the squadron, but difficult to mass all three batteries because there is no centralized fire direction.

Iím using the field manuals I have from the late 90s as my guide, so Iíll have a bunch of 2-man dismount stands. Guess Iíll need the reinforcing mech infantry as well. And some reinforcing artillery!

How much detail are you going into for the support vehicles? I would love to have every single vehicle represented in my unit, but Iím pretty sure that I just wonít model 4th squadron.
_________________
"Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl".
-Unknown Artilleryman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
madman



Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Posts: 64
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jargon alert. What does ACR stand for, in this application, please? Thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my J series will have the 8-piece battery.

My feeling is that the purpose of the squadron's battery is to support more widespread troops than in a mech or tank battalion. Also, the squadron needs to give an impression of being the main force as long as possible, so between range over a wider front and impressions delivered, it gets a battery. The batteries are not really intended to operate as a battalion and mass fires. It could be done if the plan justified it, but that would be rare. Think like a fast-moving, dynamic cavalryman, not like an artilleryman. Remember, there is no how battalion command group in the regiment.

The mech battalion is just my own idea. You won't find it in doctrine. Cavalry platoons USED to have an infantry squad, though.

I have one mech battalion and one tank battalion, both J series, with all support vehicles (wheels). A sample, if you will. The rest do without. Can't do H series until GHQ makes GOERS. I would LIKE to do ALL the support vehicles, but can't do that, keep my boys in school, and eat, so I direct my money to pay for the combat vehicles. I do equip each unit with the requisite scouts, mortars, medics, recovery. All the M113s, M577s, M88s and 578s. Also the wheeled wrecker. And Gamma Goats. Always loved those Goats, so the one in each company for the maintenance section and the Medic's M792. Remember in a tank battalion, there are 26 M151s alone.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)


Last edited by panzergator on Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madman, apologies. "Armored Cavalry Regiment"

The ACR, up until recently, was the only combat unit actually employed as a regiment. Active regiments in the late 70s included 2nd, 3rd, and 11th. The 14th preceded the 11th in sector until the 11th returned from Vietnam. All other units were divisional cavalry squadrons. For ACRs, the unit was written, for example, A/2/11. For the divisional squadron, it was written B/3-12. The hyphen told you there was no direct relationship to the regimental HQ. In fact, there was no active regimental for the 12th Cav.

Divisional Cav organization and equipment was a little different, as well.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yeah. I don't buy the air component. Too much money.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
madman



Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Posts: 64
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. From the discussion it seemed like an organization but I wasn't positive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those interested, the units, including the divisions and cavalry, moved around quite a bit over the course of the Cold War. I've recently read a paper following the cavalry units around Germany. It can be a little bit confusing. And for the immediate post-war years, cavalry units were redesignated as Constabulary units. Some of those even patrolled on horseback. Their mission wasn't just patrolling the U.S. sector boundaries, but also internal security.

Interesting articles can be found by searching for US Constabulary. It will lead to further interesting reading.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)


Last edited by panzergator on Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem. That's why we have the forum. One should always ask. I tend to forget not everybody served in the U.S. Army, and I should know better. In fact, even US Army folks today might not know what I'm talking about, since they weren't even born when I left the Army.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should say that I am currently dealing primarily with H series TOE. IN 3AD, I have one interim J series tank battalion with M60A3s and one J series mech battalion with M113A2s The remaining battalions are H series. I have 2 M1 tank battalions and 2 M2 mech battalions, all J series, as well. The ABCT needs arty and engineers.
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cav Dog
E5


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 556

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to find it but I have a diagram of how the 3rd ACR was constituted broken down into individual vehicles by platoon, troop and squadron when we deployed to ODS in 1990.

We did have an additional battalion of 155mm M109s attached to the Regiment from the OK National Guard once the shooting started. I don't know what model of M109 they were, I want to say Paldin's but can't say for sure. They also came with a 4 ship platoon of OH-58D models for observation and fire control purposes.
_________________
Tactics are the opinion of the senior officer present.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
panzergator
E5


Joined: 07 Oct 2015
Posts: 862

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I am curious about is the morphing of the divisional cavalry from 2 troops of 19 M3s to to troops with tanks. This took place during the run-up to Desert Storm, I think. The divcav troop came to be more like the ACR troop. Was an additional ground troop added, as well?
_________________
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    GHQ Models Forums Forum Index -> Military Models General Forum All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Military Models  |  N-Scale Models  |  HO-Scale Models  |  Contact GHQ
About GHQ  |  GHQ Forums  |  GHQ Order Form

©Copyright 2004-2011 GHQ Models - All Rights Reserved
Website created and hosted by KDV Technology & Consulting