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Kongo class fast battleships

 
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 262
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject: Kongo class fast battleships Reply with quote

Your fave uncle here.
As many of you know i'm into the pacific war but only to the end of 1942 ... to go beyond that is simply not a good sport as the US had more carriers then Uncle fireball had hangovers and that is saying something.
So to my question:
I purchased the Kirishima as it is the 42 version so can i use that model to depict the Haruna and kongo and what about the Hiei as from what i gather she had a different superstructure and i'm not sure if the Hiei in GHQ catalog is the 42 or 44 version cos it does not say.
Thanks in advance

FB
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kiasutha
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Joined: 25 May 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fireball:
Seems our naval interests are pretty similar, and for about the same reason...
But I'm a bit confused by the question, as Hiei was sunk in November of "42"; and the model is specific to her. So she has no "44" variant...
BTW, I've been meaning to ask- does your moniker have anything to do with your favorite brand of Kentucky "sippin likker"? Good stuff when Saki doesn't cut it...
Oh, and are you familiar with the website- combinedfleet.com?
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 262
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi kiasutha

Yeah I forgot that in sunk in 42 so it must be an early version
As to the rubber duck there was a big furor on the website when I suggested that in keeping with American naval tradition of naming us carriers after US presidents they should name the next carrier "the Donald" and someone else posted a rubber duck … ohh you should have seen the indignation … happy times Very Happy
But I'm partial to Kentucky bourbon.
We should keep in touch as I;m embarking on pacific war project and will need assistance if you read some of my recent posts you will get the idea, I have I post on jap carriers.

FB
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kiasutha
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Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fireball:
Actually, I wasn't referring to the rubber duck mess- I meant your screen name.
Over here, we have a brand of cinnamon laced Kentucky whiskey called "Fireball"
I keep a liter by the computer...
Take care,
Jim
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 262
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're my kind of guy hehehe sorry I'm not with it today and thought you]re asking about the duck.
I didn't know that it is a brand of alcohol.... i like my name even better now.

Fireball was just something to stand out and stand out i did, i used to get into a lot of heated discussions hehehe.
Some call me i minor celebrity on this forum but most wish that i went away.
Very Happy


FB
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Fireball
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Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I got you.

So it is ok to get 3 Kirishimas to represent the Kongo, haruna and kirishima?
Not much difference between the 3 ships?

FB
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kiasutha
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fireball:
I'm no expert, but I'd go with 3 Kirishima's- IJN 10. ( I only have 1 Kirishima & Hiei so far)
As far as I know, in "42" they were pretty much alike; minor variations in the light AA but nothing major.
Don S. would probably be the one to ask...
Jim
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Donald M. Scheef
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Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1496
Location: Waukegan, Illinois USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Differences among Kongo-class battleships

Sorry to take so long in answering the question – I’ve been busy with some other activities the past week.

For the moment, I’m going to limit my description to the time after 1940. Later on, I’ll come back and discuss the earlier differences among these four ships.

I’ll start with Haruna, since this ship was the first to complete the major reconstruction of the mid-to-late 1930s. To begin, Haruna (and Kirishima) had rounded sides to the main armament turrets. Kongo and Hiei had more angular, flat-sided turrets. Next, the pagoda mast differs from those of the other three ships. It’s difficult to describe – I suggest looking at a book like Siegfried Breyer’s ‘Battleships and Battlecruisers.’ In general, I would describe it as taller and bulkier-looking. Unlike any of the other three ships, the second funnel was taller than the first. Also, the superstructure aft of the second funnel was integrated into the funnel with no space between them. Haruna survived until late in the war, so received greatly augmented anti-aircraft weapons: ten twin 25mm in 1940 increased to a total to 34 in 1943, 94 in 1944, and 118 by 1945. Also in 1944, two twin 12.7 cm mounts added to the existing four. Kongo had similar increases. The exact locations differed, but in a trivial manner only.

The second ship to complete the major reconstruction was Kirishima. As noted, the main gun turrets on Kirishima had rounded sides. The pagoda mast differed from that of Haruna (again, difficult to describe). It was similar to that of Kongo, but not identical. The major difference between Kirishima and Kongo was the arrangement of the searchlight tower between the bridge structure and the first funnel (once more, you have to refer to diagrams to see the difference). Since Kirishima was lost in November of 1942, it did not receive the extensive anti-aircraft upgrades received by Kongo and Haruna.

Kongo was most similar to Kirishima in the early war period. Kongo (and Hiei) had angular sides to the main gun turrets. Other differences were mostly minor variations in the bridge/pagoda mast and in the searchlight supports. After 1943, Kongo received anti-aircraft modifications similar to those of Haruna. Major differences between Kongo and Haruna were the designs of the pagoda mast, both funnels were the same height, and there was a gap between the second funnel and the aft superstructure.

Hiei was the last of the class to receive major rebuilding. This actually returned it to full military capability after a decade as a partially-demilitarized training ship. Its bridge/foremast was based on the tower mast designed for the Yamato class rather than the modified tripod/pagoda mast. The funnels were straight, without the bulge at the top seen on the other ships of this class. Finally, there was a larger gap between the second funnel and the aft superstructure. Since Hiei was lost in November, 1942, it did not receive significant anti-aircraft additions.

With respect to GHQ’s models:
IJN9, BB Kongo – this is a late-war version with six twin 12.7cm guns. If you are not concerned with fine details (shape of bridge/pagoda mast, funnel height, and aft superstructure) you could use it as a late-war Haruna. To improve the Haruna appearance slightly, replace the main gun turrets with the rounded type found in IJN10, BB Kirishima.
IJN10, BB Kirishima – this is (obviously) an early-war version. It works fairly well as an early-war Kongo, except that you want to replace the main armament turrets with the slab-sided type found in IJN09 or IJN48. If you are not concerned with fine details (shape of bridge/pagoda mast, funnel height, and aft superstructure) you could use it as an early-war Haruna. At least the turret shape is correct.
IJN48, BB Hiei – this is (obviously) an early-war version. It is not a good representation of any of the other ships in this class.

What is most missing is Haruna, both early-war and late-war versions.

Don S.
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Last edited by Donald M. Scheef on Thu May 16, 2019 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kiasutha
E5


Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Don.
Like I said, "Need to Ask the expert". Smile
Guess I'd have remembered about Haruna if all my 1/700 models weren't packed away...
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Fireball
E5


Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 262
Location: Melbourne. Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Sheef you are a national treasure on this forum, such in depth ** CENSORED ** is greatly appreciated.
Swapping the turrets around is a top notch suggestion.

I tip my hat to you good Sir.

FB
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Fireball
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why "** CENSORED **" was censored ?
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Fireball
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there it goes again hehehehe
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Donald M. Scheef
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Joined: 24 Jun 2006
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Location: Waukegan, Illinois USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand (but not condone) censoring words such as an*lysis, Guadalcan*l and Ess*x, but why then is the French aircraft manufacturer F*rm*n censored but not Arsenal or Levasseur?
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you'll avoid catastrophe."
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