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Sherman II in NWE

 
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Mickel
E5


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Sherman II in NWE Reply with quote

I've got the better part of two sqns of Sherman Vs & VCs for my Brit NWE WWII forces, but I'm still a couple of packs shy. I thought was ok until someone pointed out that the VCs didn't replace 75mm gun tanks, they were simply added to the troops. Shocked There are about even numbers of UK57, UK 58 and UK 65. It wouldn't be unreasonable to have the remaining two packs as UK16 which are Sherman IIs would it? Or am I better off sticking with Sherman Vs, since (from my little research) they look close enough to Sherman IIIs, which were the most common mark.

On a vaguely related subject, can I simply swap M-4A3 75mm turrets with the M-4A1(76) turrets to make M-4A1(75)s and M-4A3(76)s for when I get around to my US NWE bits?

Mike
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BattlerBritain
E5


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 621
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good place to go to on how the Brits organised their tanks in '44-45 is at:
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Armour/british_armoured_regiment.htm

I also go by the Army lists in the back of an old set of Firefly rules by Tabletop games, which I've found to be remarkably accurate even if they are old.

In there they state that there were numerous organisations at the Squadron (Company) level, but that from June 44 there were 4 platoons of 4 tanks each, each Platoon comprising 1 Firefly and 3 75mm Shermans, with a Squadron HQ of 4 tanks, making 20 in total. The 75mm Shermans were M4A4s from photos that I have seen from Epsom and Goodwood, or UK65s.

Sometimes the Squadrons were organised as 5 platoons of 3, with each platoon having 1 Firefly and 2 75mm Shermans, plus HQ section of 4.

And sometimes all the Fireflies were put into one platoon, the reason being that the Fireflies were usually the first to be shot at by German tanks.

The Guards Divisions were nominally kept at or over strength, so vary the mix of Fireflies to 75mm.

As Fireflies became more common so the mix of Firefly to 75mm was evened out a bit. I think by Sept '44 the mix was 50/50.

As for Shermans with skirts, I think they were used mainly in North Africa and Italy. So you can still use the UK16s. I think some were also used in Europe, and I tend to use the ones I have in HQ sections.

Whatever, they're Shermans with 75mm guns and so they're all about the same anyway.

Hope this helps,

Battler
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Mickel
E5


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Battler. That matches about what intend winding up with. I just wanted to try to have a more eclectic mix of tanks if I could justify it. It makes things look a bit more interesting. I'm hoping to be able to arrange one sqn to look Italian theatre-ish, and have it so that it doesn't look too out of place next to the other one, which will be NWE only.
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Gort
E5


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 158
Location: SW Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mickel

Have a look at this site. It gives a breakdown for 21st Army Group units by tank type for June 1944. It'll give you the information to accurately build any unit for the period of the D-Day invasion .

http://web.archive.org/web/20010410004711/www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8418/21agt-1.htm

regards

Steve
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Gort
E5


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 158
Location: SW Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Sherman II in NWE Reply with quote

[quote="Mickel"]

On a vaguely related subject, can I simply swap M-4A3 75mm turrets with the M-4A1(76) turrets to make M-4A1(75)s and M-4A3(76)s for when I get around to my US NWE bits?

Mike[/quote]

GHQ has "US90 M4A1 75mm Cast Hull Sherman" scheduled for release in August. No details yet but since it has a US prefix I assume it will be without sandshields.

regards

Steve
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Mickel
E5


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
GHQ has "US90 M4A1 75mm Cast Hull Sherman" scheduled for release in August. No details yet but since it has a US prefix I assume it will be without sandshields.


It's actually the other way around... I'm after M-4A3(76s), but still want to try to use the remaining hulls with the A3 turret. Confused
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Gort
E5


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 158
Location: SW Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mickel

re. M4A3/76
Perfectly acceptable to swap the turret. You will have to enlarge the mounting hole on the M4A3 hull though - compare the hulls for UK16 and UK57 and you'll see what I mean.

re. M4A1/75
Problem. Sad All M4A1 with the late hull (distinguished by the larger hatches mounted at an angle) received the T23 turret and 76mm gun. None were manufactured with the original turret and the 75mm gun or 105mm howitzer. It is possible to physically place the 75mm turret on the M4A1 hull, but what it really comes down to is how picky you are about detail. I myself won't do it, but I'm Mr. Picky when it comes to my shermans.

regards

Steve
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Mickel
E5


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ha! I knew I'd find one! Someone who knew Sherman details. Very Happy

The easiest thing to do is simply buy a pack of M-4A3s and five T23 turrets separately. Either that or talk the nice folk at GHQ into making an M-4A3(76) pack with the bits they already have. I suspect that is how the Sherman with the FL10 turret came about!

Thanks.

Mike
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